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Author Topic: NPC-s  (Read 5171 times)

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verkli

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NPC-s
« on: December 27, 2013, 07:47:23 PM »

hey guys!

just started on a new server and im wondering there are  only 3 NPC-s in my area, is this a bug, or a new feature?

thx
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gamaset

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Re: NPC-s
« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2013, 08:21:39 PM »

its always been 3 and watch out there are new set ups in the 6.4 and the 10k
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adamsky

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Re: NPC-s
« Reply #2 on: December 30, 2013, 02:30:54 PM »

Spawning new cities a little bit futrther from each other may help. You will cover bigger area of the map and more NPCs will be generated.

When you select a spot on the map, there is a screen with smth like: "Delta (+|+) sector, position (x, y)". When you move mouse over coordinates (x, y), you will see a tooltip with a number - it's a "map area number". Each of those areas are 8x8 squares and each will have 3 NPCs. If you spawn cities in few adjacent areas, you will have a better access to NPCs.
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Enneagon

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Re: NPC-s
« Reply #3 on: December 30, 2013, 06:25:03 PM »

How long it takes for removed NPCs to respawn in given area?
Why sometimes it appears to be instantly, but other times there less or none NPCs in given area for a while?
Is there any limit over time or something alike?
(I speak about known map panel)

P.S. How about option to display panel borders explicitly?
We now waste lot of flags for that....
Or... I'm about to write chrome extension to do that... But it will not work on android, where I need that most...
« Last Edit: December 30, 2013, 06:32:46 PM by Enneagon »
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verkli

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Re: NPC-s
« Reply #4 on: December 31, 2013, 08:32:26 PM »

adamsky:

yes, thats clear. But if i remember well, there were 4 NPC-s when i was play at summer. Anyway, mostly have only two NPC-s time to time, idk why the third not spawning, so if you can't kill that two really evil NPC-s, you must wait hours for refreshing....

gamaset:

Hey friend. Are you playing on S1?
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gamaset

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Re: NPC-s
« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2014, 03:22:55 AM »

yeah im playing on S3 right now
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Enneagon

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Re: NPC-s
« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2014, 03:37:26 AM »

Anyway, mostly have only two NPC-s time to time, idk why the third not spawning, so if you can't kill that two really evil NPC-s, you must wait hours for refreshing....
Yes, I notice this problem too, on s1.

Interesting, if you clear any two, they respawn immediately (or almost), but if you hit one, don't touch the two others, then hit again the respawned third... that third then goes away for a while, can't swear, but think I at least once waited over 4 hours for it to show up again.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2014, 03:42:17 AM by Enneagon »
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adamsky

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Re: NPC-s
« Reply #7 on: January 07, 2014, 09:20:53 PM »

Quote
yes, thats clear. But if i remember well, there were 4 NPC-s when i was play at summer
There were no changes in this algorithm since a long time. There should be 3.

Quote
How long it takes for removed NPCs to respawn in given area?
Why sometimes it appears to be instantly, but other times there less or none NPCs in given area for a while?
Is there any limit over time or something alike?
(I speak about known map panel)
Game engine generates NPCs all the time. Every x seconds it selects a map area and adds NPCs there. I'm not sure at the moment how often exactly, but it's at least once per 60 sec.

In a first place engine takes map areas with low ammount of NPCs.

Quote
Anyway, mostly have only two NPC-s time to time, idk why the third not spawning
Wait.... so you have only 2, not 3?
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verkli

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Re: NPC-s
« Reply #8 on: January 08, 2014, 03:58:48 PM »

maybe enneagon right, and there is a bug around the third. This not-swapping-the-third is big problem to mediate players. If they have a 10K and a 16K in their zone, they cant kill NPC-s a long time, because no third one.
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Enneagon

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Re: NPC-s
« Reply #9 on: January 09, 2014, 03:08:34 AM »

Quote
How long it takes for removed NPCs to respawn in given area?
Game engine generates NPCs all the time. Every x seconds it selects a map area and adds NPCs there. I'm not sure at the moment how often exactly, but it's at least once per 60 sec.

In a first place engine takes map areas with low ammount of NPCs.

Well, it now makes sense for me.

So, if I understand it right, areas with less NPC have higher chance (but no hard priority) to get one new.
From here, if you have one or none, you should get one pretty fast (although no guaranty, for example, one of our players had no NPC at all in his area for a while), but if you have 2 already, chance to get the third is considerably less, and you compete with all other two NPC areas for it.

So the intuitive assumption that killing another NPC should trigger spawn, is both right and wrong. Right, because it often works, wrong because it works in much more indirect way than someone could thinking about it.

It does not explain, however, why depleted areas so often get the new NPC's in bulk (or in few blinks), not noticeably one by one.
But well, slow spawn happens too. So probably just matter of luck...
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adamsky

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Re: NPC-s
« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2014, 05:13:07 PM »

Quote
It does not explain, however, why depleted areas so often get the new NPC's in bulk (or in few blinks), not noticeably one by one.
When engine adds NPCs, it fills the area. If there are 0, 3 new NPCs will be generated. Is there is 1, engine will add 2.

Quote
maybe enneagon right, and there is a bug around the third. This not-swapping-the-third is big problem to mediate players. If they have a 10K and a 16K in their zone, they cant kill NPC-s a long time, because no third one.
If you get only 2 per map area, send me an information which server and what coordinates. Use PM or support system if you don't want to make it public.
I was looking at the map lately and everything seems to work fine.

Quote
This not-swapping-the-third is big problem to mediate players. If they have a 10K and a 16K in their zone, they cant kill NPC-s a long time, because no third one.
Thats always the biggest problem with NPCs. Some players want only 10K and 16K, others want only small ones, etc.
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verkli

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Re: NPC-s
« Reply #11 on: January 12, 2014, 04:03:17 AM »

thx Adamsky, you really try to find a solution. so

i think you mean there is a (NPC) refreshing cycle in each area/about 60 secs. Thats working fine, if there are zero or one NPC-s on that area, but if there are exactly two, sometimes the refreshing routine not working, or working really slowly (hours) i dont know why.

im playing on S1 now, I can send you my coords, if it helps, but that only-two-NPCs-sometimes thing exists in all areas controlled by me. (haha, im the Big Chief of that areas)
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deathpact

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Re: NPC-s
« Reply #12 on: January 27, 2014, 07:26:04 PM »

I have the same problem. my 3rd npc is spawning maybe 4 times a day max.

I sent you the info adamsky via pm.
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deathpact

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Re: NPC-s
« Reply #13 on: January 28, 2014, 02:25:50 PM »

My army is just sitting at my city at the moment. the 2 spawn has way more stronger armies than mine and my 3rd is just not spawning. It has been almost 14 hours now.

I am not even sure if anyone is reading the forums btw.
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Enneagon

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Re: NPC-s
« Reply #14 on: January 28, 2014, 05:43:51 PM »

In my understanding of what Adamsky said, the refresh routine works once at a time, for ONE area somewhere, then next time, for ANOTHER are somewhere else, it works with a map as a whole, NOT for each particular area separately.

And, as less NPC and more cities you have in an area as greater the chance that the refresh routine will choose YOUR area...
So, while NPCs are quickly removed elsewhere you may indeed need to wait hours while refresh routine randomly draws your area.

-

But indeed, many players are complaining that they have only two NPC per area, even when actively removing all of them.

I keep an eye on my lands, and have theory how you can fool yourself in thinking that your area spawns only two:
1) you remove one, two remains, new spawn probability is low,
2) you send missions to get the other two,
3) as soon the second NPC is gone (but one still remains) the spawn probability increases dramatically,
4) spawn happens, and two new NPC are added,
5) the remaining old NPC is removed,
6) probability to spawn one missing is low... (back to the step 2)

Steps 3-5 may happen within seconds, so you indeed see only two NPC in your area, most of the time.

It is possible to say that it happens because... spawn is too fast, and too skewed... not that I wanted it to be reduced, just saying ;)
The very active players may object, but it may be more fair if the spawn probability would be uniform for any area, no matter if it contains none, one or two NPCs. Or at least the gradation of differences might be reduced considerably.

« Last Edit: January 28, 2014, 06:38:18 PM by Enneagon »
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