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Author Topic: AMG bounty  (Read 7413 times)

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furek86

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AMG bounty
« on: November 02, 2012, 06:17:16 PM »

Could we please have the AMG be REMOVED from NPC bounty? Is anyone actually using AMG??? I feel AMG is like a fat kid in gym class. Always gets picked last cause nobody wants it and if it's gone, we don't miss it...
I understand there might be a reason for AMG to be in the game, but I always thought a weapon bounty would be sth rare and expensive, since you attacked a strong NPC. But AMG is not the end of the rainbow...feels more like trolling my mechs :)
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DonJean

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Re: AMG bounty
« Reply #1 on: November 02, 2012, 11:27:25 PM »

Oddly I wish they woudl show up more I tend to use far too many of them Rail Gun 2 on the other hand first the description you gave perfectly.
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Leviathan

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Re: AMG bounty
« Reply #2 on: November 03, 2012, 01:15:57 PM »

Quote
Oddly I wish they woudl show up more I tend to use far too many of them

lol wtf  :o  please tell me you're kidding....

I always taught this weapon was introduced as a joke, but seriously? It needs to go from bounty
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DonJean

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Re: AMG bounty
« Reply #3 on: November 03, 2012, 07:23:09 PM »

no.

It is cheaper to research, does more damage for less cell usage. Even if you take into account the maximum amount of AMG on a mech and compare that to the production cost of max RG2 it still comes out ahead.

So in summation
More Damage
Less cost
Less cells
Less to research.
More per mech so a lost weapon impacts less on your damage output.

I will state it has less range but the way combat movement works on spiders rarely comes up as they come into range on the same turn.

Personally I feel the entire ballistics line needs work compared to energy.

I still dont see the joke. Feel free to point it out to me.
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Leviathan

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Re: AMG bounty
« Reply #4 on: November 03, 2012, 08:06:38 PM »

Ok let me draw this out for you:

the average damage of the AMG is 11.20
the same damage of the rg2 is 38.25

the average damage PER WEIGHT ratio of the amg is 1.02 while the rg2's is 1.06 plus the rg2 has a much greater range, accuracy

the AMG is in the corner of shame along with the LMG and the light laser and the fact that it may look cool won't change that. fact is it just dosen't have any uses, it sucks as a jumper/antijumper weapon and it sucks even more as a medium ranged weapons
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Leviathan

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Re: AMG bounty
« Reply #5 on: November 04, 2012, 02:58:40 AM »

What? I just gave you facts. Maths don't lie. Also if you feel we're all wrong and you're right, use the simulator. That dosen't lie either.
If the devs want to change its stats, fine. It needs lots of work, but the fact remains, the AMG sucks right now. Period.
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DonJean

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Re: AMG bounty
« Reply #6 on: November 04, 2012, 10:34:19 AM »

Ok let me draw this out for you:

the average damage of the AMG is 11.20
the same damage of the rg2 is 38.25

the average damage PER WEIGHT ratio of the amg is 1.02 while the rg2's is 1.06 plus the rg2 has a much greater range, accuracy

the AMG is in the corner of shame along with the LMG and the light laser and the fact that it may look cool won't change that. fact is it just dosen't have any uses, it sucks as a jumper/antijumper weapon and it sucks even more as a medium ranged weapons


Sorry I was on a phone and it didnt display your post only Jada.

Ok I'll take it in steps:
The avg damage should be for 3AMG actually. The reason for this is simple you can load three of them for every one RG2. Thus per weight the ratio is much closer you have to compare it fairly or the maths means nothing.

I have tested it in the simulator over and over. One to One yes the AMG will lose, but if you test a max load out vs max load out the combat is actually much much closer.

I also never said it was a great weapon only that in comparison I feel it outshines the RG2 for the purposes I use it for. But again I stated in the grand scheme of things it does need a look at. For the reasons I gave earlier I feel specifically that there is definatly a problem with either the AMG or the RG2 as it stands.
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furek86

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Re: AMG bounty
« Reply #7 on: November 04, 2012, 04:49:37 PM »

I also never said it was a great weapon only that in comparison I feel it outshines the RG2 for the purposes I use it for. But again I stated in the grand scheme of things it does need a look at. For the reasons I gave earlier I feel specifically that there is definatly a problem with either the AMG or the RG2 as it stands.

Something that needs work to get improved should not be a bounty. That is my opinion. Bounty should be sth awesome, that rewards your efforts.
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DonJean

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Re: AMG bounty
« Reply #8 on: November 04, 2012, 08:37:30 PM »

I agree and that is a whole other thread since the list would include more than just the AMG.
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furek86

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Re: AMG bounty
« Reply #9 on: November 05, 2012, 12:58:02 PM »

Could we get a dev's opinion here?
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adamsky

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Re: AMG bounty
« Reply #10 on: November 05, 2012, 02:30:28 PM »

When we were starting there were only few usable weapons in the game. You'd be surprised how hard it is to balance ~20 weapons that can be used with 9 different Mech chassis and various behavours.

RG2 is better ofcourse. It's almost 2 tims more expensive and requires more expensive labs in Tech Lab.


At the moment math behind AMG and RG2 looks like this:
- average dmg at max distance: AMG: 1.02 || RG2: 1.06
- average dmg at min distance: AMG: 1.45 || RG2: 1.25
At max distance RG2 wins (better range and damage), but AMG will be more effective against JP.

AMG with those parameters was tested both in tournamenst and in real game. Tournamenst proved that it's sligthly underpowred, but not as much as most of you think. In-game tests showed that it can be effective weapon for ST. It's better than RG1 and IPC and it's easier to get it than RG2.


I plan to increase it's damage (16 -> 17) with next balance fix. Next weapon balance fix is supposed to make ballistic weapons stronger (compared to energy weapons). I want to correct ont only AMG, but also:
- increase range of LRR (it's possible that we'll have to reduce dmg a little bit) - we want to make LRR more effective than PLR on fast Mech and make both weapons similar on Nova armies
- increase RG2 dmg a little bit (45 -> 48)
- reduce EMP dmg (110 -> 105) and increase splash range to compensate dmg reduction
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DonJean

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Re: AMG bounty
« Reply #11 on: November 05, 2012, 06:38:05 PM »

EMP is probably the one gun that is over used as it is. Even that damage reduction is not going to impact that a whole lot.

But yes balancing will always be an issue since its the age old RPG problem of ranged vs melee.
The solution has usually been long range weapons deal less damage vs short range more damage. The problem in Mech hero is that this wont work as since on the same speed Mechs the longer ranged weapons are always going to win. The only way to truly eliminate the problem is to have both weapons start in range which is completely stupid.


I know you have repeatedly said you don't want to do it but if you make the weapon ranges more equivalent between ballistics and energy it would make some of the balancing much easier. I don't envy you this will be a near impossible task.
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furek86

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Re: AMG bounty
« Reply #12 on: March 31, 2013, 09:47:23 AM »

Please remoe AMG from NPC bounty. Or give it only with 4k and 6.4k, not in 10k. Giving 10 AMGs after a hard fight with a 10k means pretty much the same as giving 50 LLs as a bounty. No player is using AMG and giving it as a bounty is a grim joke.
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adamsky

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Re: AMG bounty
« Reply #13 on: April 03, 2013, 02:46:49 PM »

Range of equipment in NPC is based on value. Certain NPC class can have equipment with value betwen X and Y. Removing AMG means that we'd have to remove lots of other equipment from those NPCs.

AMG was tweaked and currently math behind RG2 and AMG looks like this:
- average dmg at max distance: AMG: 1.18 || RG2: 1.13
- average dmg at min distance: AMG: 1.64 || RG2: 1.33
AMG has a shorter range than RG2, but it deals more damage.
I realize it's worse than RG2 in real game (range gets more important), but it's not totally useless anymore. I can see it being used as a mid range weapon for ST from time to time.

If you don't use AMG, you can recycle them and get ~100K resources.
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gamaset

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Re: AMG bounty
« Reply #14 on: April 07, 2013, 09:38:58 PM »

I would just like to say wow i just hit a 16k and got 2 mortars let me get right to using those (roll eyes)
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