MechHero Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5

Author Topic: Mech pilots  (Read 19884 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Sturm

  • Guest
Re: Mech pilots
« Reply #30 on: December 22, 2011, 04:06:13 PM »

Pilot upgrade - jetpack any unit (awe shoot)
Logged

kowal112

  • Raptor
  • *
  • Posts: 16
Re: Mech pilots
« Reply #31 on: December 25, 2011, 11:38:02 PM »

Ok. Currently my main problem is how to limit number of pilots. I still think we should limit it somehow to make it more RPGish.


If you will limit number of pilots, how you will solve behavior group upgrade?

Logged

adamsky

  • Nova
  • *****
  • Posts: 3781
    • Email
Re: Mech pilots
« Reply #32 on: December 29, 2011, 05:34:41 PM »

Quote
If you will limit number of pilots, how you will solve behavior group upgrade?
Easily. :) We need to work on details, but I have a general conception.

Not many players were investing in unlocking those options anyway... We will expand set of basic orders so most of those options will be available for every Mech (most of all "keep min distance" and "target disarmed").

Some targetting options and escaping conditions will be available for pilots only, but you will be able to use them through improved version of "same as general".

One thing I'm not sure about is what to do with "Keep out of enemy weapons range" and "Stay out of enemies weapon range". Unlock both for all Mechs or unlock only one or leave both for pilots only?
Logged

Draven

  • Vulture
  • *
  • Posts: 20
Re: Mech pilots
« Reply #33 on: December 30, 2011, 12:09:06 PM »

hello everyone,

Im new to the game but i have a few ideas that might sound good.

the pilots is a very good idea because in will increase the rpg aspect of the game. i think that have a max pilots is the best idea for the simple fact is if you have a player that has an army of 400 pilots all with skills and very good weapons and mechs. that person would have overwhelming combat ability that the newer players would not be able to match. and there is nothing that makes people more upset is when they are attacked by people that they cant defend against or counter attack. so limiting the number of pilots is a good idea for the simple fact is that if a heavy hitter player attacks you with lets say 10 pilots you can still stand some kind of a chance if lets say you have a larger army of AI mechs. But if that same player attacks you with 400 piloted mechs all with skills your not going to stand a chance. And you can just forget about counter attacking that player just for the reason. So just to try and make it a little more fair for the newer players i agree that there should be a max number.

Combat you should make it that there is a % of a chance that a pilot can be killed in action. depending on the mech he is using, the number of enemies that you are going against, his current lvl and his skills that you have invested in. becuase if you want a true rpg element to the game losses in war happens. But if they are not killed and you beat a larger force they should get a large exp bonus for surviving the battle. If you lose a pilot you can just recruit another one and start from lvl 1 again. this would also help to maintain the fairness of the game for all players. So that a new player still have a chance to take on the larger players that have been playing for a long time. That way one person or a group of people would not always be the top dogs of the game. I have played many game where there are always a small hand full of people that are the most pwerful and you never get a chance to become anything grand in the game cause the big dogs always are stronger and they beat you down if you start to make any kind of move on taking there rank from them.
Logged

Draven

  • Vulture
  • *
  • Posts: 20
Re: Mech pilots
« Reply #34 on: December 30, 2011, 12:22:09 PM »

something else i just thought of and i dont know if you would want to get this far in depth.
have a loyalty stat for your pilots. so if you have lvl 4 pilot with very low loyalty you would have a chance on losing him to another player via bribes. that would add even more to the rpg element of the game. its just a thought i dont know if anyone will agree with the idea.

to maintain your pilots loyalty you have to pay him some kind of wage and have the loyalty go down a bit after a few days, weeks unless you increase his wages. or you can have it so he gos AWOL on you.

please leave any feedback on my ideas that i have put out here. i know that im new to the game and my ideas may be stupid or whatever but im just trying to give some feedback from a new player that has played alot of rpg and mmo games.
Logged

Ganymede

  • Vulture
  • *
  • Posts: 36
Re: Mech pilots
« Reply #35 on: December 30, 2011, 06:15:41 PM »

I have to respectfully disagree with you, Draven. I'm with you when you say you're frustrated when an advanced player swoops in and takes all your stuff and there's nothing you can do about it, but you have to look at their side of things too. If you spent many hours building up a pilot would you want all that work gone because of a lucky shot? There's got to be a compromise. Give them a recovery option, but make it expensive and time consuming, like the recovery stations we have now. Two main things games can do to make a player lose interest are making it too easy to take away something hard gained, and tediousness. Speaking of which, maintaining loyalty would fall into that second category. The only thing it adds is responsibility: you get no perks for doing it, you've already put in time and resources to get it in the first place, and the "benefit" is not losing something i.e. negative feedback with no win.
Logged

Draven

  • Vulture
  • *
  • Posts: 20
Re: Mech pilots
« Reply #36 on: January 02, 2012, 10:25:17 AM »

ok you are right about the point you made about losing your high lvl pilot would suck. i know that for a fact. cause i have played other games where you had heroes,leaders and in this case pilots and have lost them. true it dos make you mad when it happens. i myself lost a lvl 20 hero in a game where the max lvl is 21. and yes i was very upset about it. but i got over it and got myself another one and started over. because that all part of the war aspect of games. and yes i am looking at it from the big guys side as well and here the way they would look at it. " i have a pilot thats maxxed out, the best mech and weapons in the game. i dont have to worry about anything cause my hero cant die so i can attack the same little people if i want. cause they wont be able to do anything about it. why should i attack someone with equal or greater power than myself cause i can keep attacking this guy over here that can be my own personal little bank. oh and did i say that im in an alliance thats in the top 10. so if i get hit cause im picking on a little guy ill just have my alliance help me out." thats exactly what they would think and say. If you want me to be honest and im not being disrespectfully about it it doesnt sound like you want it to be balanced. that you want it pro big. For the players that have been playing since the game came out and that are in the strongest alliances. I mean what would be the point of new players coming and joining the game cause they are just going to get what i called bashed by the large players. i honestly dont see whats "balanced" about that. i see in many of the forums that the word "balanced" used to described when there are changes made to the game to even the playing field for all the players or to even out the weapons and other aspects of the game. i could be wrong about this but from all the forums i have read you all want a game thats different but fun from all the other mmo out there. well i dont see whats fun about as soon as your out of the protection period your getting bashed from the higher players and they will never lose anything so there is no reason for them to stop attacking you. and i have seen where other players have wrote let say smart*** things such as if you dont like it delete your account and start over. ok whats the point its just going to happen again in the new area you start in. cause im sure there are those big players that spend all that time and resources making the high lvl pilots and mechs and they are looking for a personal little farm just like the last player was. so what delete your account and try again? what would be the point. if you truely want the game to be balanced then you have to give something for the big players to be worried about other than which new player am i going to bash today. and as for the pilots dieing it wouldnt just happen to the big players it would happen to everyone big and small. " balanced "
Logged

adamsky

  • Nova
  • *****
  • Posts: 3781
    • Email
Re: Mech pilots
« Reply #37 on: January 02, 2012, 02:46:36 PM »

I will begin with some bad news. We had some unexpected issues in last weeks that slowed us down. We will not be able to implement Mech pilots for the next server. As a temporary solution we will rebalance Recovery Station to increase it's capacity.


Quote
Combat you should make it that there is a % of a chance that a pilot can be killed in action.
Quote
to maintain your pilots loyalty you have to pay him some kind of wage and have the loyalty go down a bit after a few days, weeks unless you increase his wages. or you can have it so he gos AWOL on you.
No, players will not be loosing pilots. It is possible that it will hurt a little bit when pilot gets rescued, but you can expect something like loosing some experience or recovery process lasting few hours.

One of the problems in current system is that having high-level Mechs is making you less eager to start a PvP fight. You can easily create an army of 15 or 30 Mechs and get them all to level 15. Exploring NPCs with such army is ok, but when you attack someone, there is a chance that you will loose your army and you will get back to level 0 Mechs. Rebuilding the army will be fast, but bringing Mechs back to level 15 takes much more time and effort.

Quote
" i have a pilot thats maxxed out, the best mech and weapons in the game. i dont have to worry about anything cause my hero cant die so i can attack the same little people if i want. cause they wont be able to do anything about it. why should i attack someone with equal or greater power than myself cause i can keep attacking this guy over here that can be my own personal little bank. oh and did i say that im in an alliance thats in the top 10. so if i get hit cause im picking on a little guy ill just have my alliance help me out."
Mech Hero is a startegy game and you can harm your enemy in many ways even if you can't kill his pilots. We don't plan to make pilots THAT important for a simple reason: One round of the game lasts only 8 months and the whole idea of server reset doesn't work with RPG games very well. Pilots will be some nice addition, but not the main element of the game.

You can kill enemy army, you can destroy buildings in enemy cities, you can steal artifacts. "Winning" defined by the game itself is related to antimatter and Spaceship so it's more about having a good alliance (having good pilots is not enough).

Besides... My experience shows that adding new ways to inflict damage is not the best way to help smaller players. :) I realize those stories about small players killing big players' pilots sound good on the forum, but in the game we will rather see something exactly opposite.
Logged

Drone

  • Raptor
  • *
  • Posts: 15
Re: Mech pilots
« Reply #38 on: January 31, 2012, 02:29:38 PM »

Well... If there is a pilot, then the mechs are nothing more then a vessel with some intelligence, that would make impossible to even call the game "MECH HERO" :P because that is no longer about the evolving mechs, so I'm against the whole pilot idea. I would say to change the "recovery station" to a "mech development center", where you can invest in your mech's development, of course those developments would be expensive and time dependent...You would need to do some research to develop "upgrades" for those type of mechs, those developments would need a mech to experiment on it, a lot of resources, and a lot of time, and when you developed an upgrade that can be applied for each one of that type in less time, and for less resources...
developments could require to send that mech to battle or quest or something else to see how it's working, then back to the devstation for examination, then to wait a few more time, then send again to somewhere to test it, and again and again until the upgrade you requested is completed. I think that's more about making actually hech heroes, then the alternative...
Of course this would also not solve the problem of limiting heroes, but at least I said what I'm thinking about... :P:)
« Last Edit: January 31, 2012, 02:42:54 PM by Drone »
Logged

SearchnRsQ

  • Raptor
  • *
  • Posts: 9
Re: Mech pilots
« Reply #39 on: February 17, 2012, 07:57:06 AM »

How about giving Mech Pilots "stats"

Such as:

Strength: Increases weapon damage

Dexterity: Increases your accuracy & decreases enemy weapon accuracy

Intelligence: Increases the experience your Pilot receives.

As you pilot gains experience, and gains levels, you get points to improve his/hers stats.


Additionally:

And once your pilot's stats meat a minimum, they can get additional skills.  (such as: increased speed or unlock movement and targeting strategies)

Like, at Strength 50 & Dexterity 50, you unlock a specific skill. Which first must be 1st researched at the "Training Center"

Then once you have met the requirements, you can then train that pilot to have that skill.



Logged

Gojira

  • Raptor
  • *
  • Posts: 18
  • The King of all Monsters
Re: Mech pilots
« Reply #40 on: March 03, 2012, 12:24:22 AM »

I have a few bits myself.  I'm new to the game and the forums so I am glad to have stumbled upon this before it got implemented.(That means I think my ideas are boss, arrogance, I know)


The escape pod strategy...I don't like it.(No offence to the person who came up with it, I love you anyways)  Does the pilot walk back after ejection?  Maybe you have to send him a transport to give him a ride-and while he is out in the wasteland that obviously supports no life what does he eat?  Even better, after walking around in that harsh environment in a life sustaining suit he'd smell like burnt-leathery bacon....nasty.
I wouldn't want my guy going out with a risk of him getting stinky, he'd smell up the joint on return.  That could be the downside of loosing the army though, low morale of the workers who have to breathe.  Just a thought.

Anyway, why send them out at all?  Hell, why have people pilot the mechs even?  I could have a brain in a jar of glowing goop that ran the mech by remote control using the sats.(Note to self, ask for the radar station to be renamed the "Satellite Linkup")  I think that would be EPIC!  Of course if you do want people running a mech they could still do it by remote the same way.  Children would have better reaction times, FYI.
Ok, now the mechs are run by remote but how?  I already said, SATS!  :D  Any army can go out and be run at close range without sats since the command center already has short range scanning, same idea.  In order to have intelligent control at a distance you would need a satellite linkup(hint hint) and some sats.  The sats would be automatically sent as part of the army to daisy chain the link to my glowing goop brain, or child soldier if you prefer.  If not enough sats you get a red warning that says so.  Go ahead with the hit if you like dumb mechs run by an AI.  Even more fun!  If you do send an intelligent attack at a long range target your town is now low on anti-spy defense.  STRATEGY!  This keeps pilot whatevers from harm and still gives them useful experience.  Everybody wins!

Quote
But what about the uncontrolled mechs?
Easy, they have no brains but they have the brawn.  Why would having a good pilot make the mech stronger anyways?  I could understand if I had a BOSS mechanic that knew how to squeeze every last bit of power from my mech increasing the load capacity, but a pilot?  I don't care how skilled a pilot you are there is no way you are going to load more guns on your vehicle than the engineers designed it to carry.  Otherwise NASCAR drivers would be payed to leave the track and drive 18 wheelers.  "Don't worry boss, I am a great driver. I can fit twice as much in that trailer as the stupid engineers think is possible according to physics".
This doesn't mean you have to drop that from the stat upgrades though.  I just don't think machines really work better after they get beat up alot.  I would suggest(and I soon will) that the physical upgrade cost resources and time.  Maybe not alot of res but lots of time.  Kinda like fine tuning it to do the best possible.  No factory specs for me!  I want a custom job and some nice decal work, maybe even a stereo.

Basically AI research would let you get better mechs since even with a pilot you need the computer to run it anyways, but the pilot would get better at running the show.  At first he can run one and have a few AI do support.  Later he can start giving commands to more than one in a single group(building upgrade explained?) but no more than one group at a time.  Things like "Escape when no weapons" would be an AI think since a computer could tell if the machine didn't work but "<50% hull" would have to be a pilot choice because machines have no nerves and can't tell how many holes they have.  They only really know if a machine stops working.
You would still want the pilot running the best mech you have so it survives more often, keeps you from having to upgrade the thing again.

Whew, my typing finger is spent!  
Holla atcha boys for me.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2012, 12:38:41 AM by Gojira »
Logged

adamsky

  • Nova
  • *****
  • Posts: 3781
    • Email
Re: Mech pilots
« Reply #41 on: March 05, 2012, 03:07:39 PM »

While I understand your points, we have to make sure this new feature is not lead to very big changes in game mechanics. For example: If we say that pilots controll their Mechs while sitting in a city, it's getting extremly hard to explain why you can't call back your attack or change behaviour while Mechs are on the way to attack some city. That's why we will rather go for pilots using Mechs as a giant exoskeletons.

As for capacity bonus attached to a Mech, it would be lost when Mech gets destroyed. Main reason for this whole change is not to loose experience bonuses so we will rather add some story about experienced pilot being able to operate with higher load.

Gameplay-related reasons will be more important than real-life explanation.



Few words about stats and bonuses.

Each Pilot will be described by few stats: strength, dexterity, perception, intelligence. With each level, those stats will be rising, but those stats alone will not affect Mech parameters. Player will have control over those stats: with each level you can increase one.

There will be a list of skills. Each skill will require pilot to have stats at certain level.

For example: there will be skill called "Evasion" that will increase a chance that enemy misses.
- Pilot with dexterity 6, perception 5, intelligence 3 can go through basic evasion training and get 5% bonus.
- Pilot with dexterity 8, perception 6, intelligence 4 can go through semi-advanced evasion training and get 10% bonus.
...
- Pilot with dexterity 14, perception 10, intelligence 8 can go through expert evasion training and get 25% bonus.

I'm working on a list of skills now.
There will be skills that increase Mech patrameters (capacity, hull strength, combat speed). Repair and rearm time will be propably moved elsewhere.
There will be skills that will allow pilot to specialize in certain weapons (sniper, artillery, short range, machine guns, etc.).
I will try to add few additional skills (like evasion or something like army coordination that will increase combat speed of all friendly Mechs).


None of this was implemented so far (some issues slowed us down) so if you have any ideas and remarks, we can still change lost of things.

Any ideas for some cool skills?
Logged

Ganymede

  • Vulture
  • *
  • Posts: 36
Re: Mech pilots
« Reply #42 on: March 06, 2012, 01:05:21 AM »

i'm just going to list things as they come to me:

deep scanning: weapon ranges remain the same, but for the purposes of targeting, will consider all enemy mechs on the battlefield regardless of whether or not they are already within firing range.

eagle eye: increase weapon range by x%

damage control: regenerate x hull points per round

support abilities: define a range about the pilot (could be his weapon range, or something else), and any other friendly mechs in that range get bonuses (to combat speed, accuracy, damage, splash, armor, etc) or any enemy units get negatives to the same.

initiative: ensures that the mech will act first every round (turn order for multiple pilots with initiative can be divided by pilot level, dex score, etc)

armor piercing: negate armor/shields, or if too powerful you can say "negate the first x damage to shields"; e.g. if you do 100 damage, perhaps 80 will go to the shields and 20 will go straight through

armor destroying: weapons do normal damage to hulls but +x% more to their respective shielding

shield debilitator: weapon damage reduces both armor and shields

crack shot: increase chance to destroy enemy weapons/jetpacks/transport platforms per shot

cripple: increase chance to reduce enemy combat speed per shot

hacker: chance to confuse an enemy mech for 1 turn. a confused mech randomly attacks enemy mechs, friendly mechs, or does nothing.

weapon overdrive: add or increase weapon splash

missile tech: can fire more than 1 of the same missile per turn

quick reload: reduce reload time by 1 round (this may be too powerful, so perhaps "chance to reduce reload time by 1 round")
quick reload v2: chance that a weapon will fire next turn regardless of reload status

opportunist: chance to counterattack when hit (so long as you're in range)
opportunist v2: regardless of targeting configuration, if a mech in range can be killed by 1 more shot, the pilot will take it instead of targeting what he might have.

rally: get an extra shot if you destroy a mech

quick learner: increased exp from battles

observer: gain exp even if you take no damage

critical hits: chance to do +x% damage (instead of just a flat damage bonus every turn; typically the bonus is bigger than it would be if it were a constant bonus)

ambush: mechs with jet packs get a free shot before battle begins

sabotage: drain/chance to drain enemy armor/shield/hull by x pts for y turns after a successful shot.

immobilize: after successful shot, chance to prevent enemy mech from moving on its next turn

disarm: after successful shot, chance to prevent enemy mech from firing on its next turn

self destruct: upon destruction of his mech, a pilot activates a self destruct that inflicts massive splash damage



i think i could keep going, but i'll stop here.

Logged

Gojira

  • Raptor
  • *
  • Posts: 18
  • The King of all Monsters
Re: Mech pilots
« Reply #43 on: March 07, 2012, 05:46:49 AM »

While I understand your points, we have to make sure this new feature is not lead to very big changes in game mechanics. For example: If we say that pilots controll their Mechs while sitting in a city, it's getting extremly hard to explain why you can't call back your attack or change behaviour while Mechs are on the way to attack some city. That's why we will rather go for pilots using Mechs as a giant exoskeletons.

As for capacity bonus attached to a Mech, it would be lost when Mech gets destroyed. Main reason for this whole change is not to loose experience bonuses so we will rather add some story about experienced pilot being able to operate with higher load.

Gameplay-related reasons will be more important than real-life explanation.

How does the pilot being in the mech stop him from recalling the mission and why can't he change behavior while on the road?  Not too sure how that is different than sitting at home with a remote as far as a gameplay change is concerned.  Also, capacity attached to the mech is what we already do.  Unless this pilot feature will let destroyed mechs come home with the driver we will still need to rebuild the dead mech.  Having the load capacity of a 100 ton machine increased by a guy just by sitting down in a seat is more of a change to the gameplay as far as I can see.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2012, 05:51:53 AM by Gojira »
Logged

adamsky

  • Nova
  • *****
  • Posts: 3781
    • Email
Re: Mech pilots
« Reply #44 on: March 07, 2012, 11:55:44 AM »

Quote
How does the pilot being in the mech stop him from recalling the mission and why can't he change behavior while on the road?  Not too sure how that is different than sitting at home with a remote as far as a gameplay change is concerned.
We send a pilot on a mission. We can write some story that due to high radioactivity there are serious problems with communication and there is possibility of jamming signals by enemies or that there is a risk that enemy signals will deceive our brave heroes, blah blah blah and army can't recieve an order to get back home.

Quote
Also, capacity attached to the mech is what we already do.  Unless this pilot feature will let destroyed mechs come home with the driver we will still need to rebuild the dead mech.  Having the load capacity of a 100 ton machine increased by a guy just by sitting down in a seat is more of a change to the gameplay as far as I can see.
When we introduce Pilots, ALL bonuses will be attached to a Pilot only. Mechs will not gather experience at all. Pilots are not an addition to current system - we want to replace current system of experience bonuses with something new.

If we don't make capacity bonus for a Pilot, there will be no capacity bonus at all.
Logged
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5