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Author Topic: Mech pilots  (Read 19916 times)

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Tyrranus

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Re: Mech pilots
« Reply #15 on: December 12, 2011, 08:51:52 PM »

Sounds good to me. Tho Id make the hours of patrols selectable by the user(and XP scales by time)
ideas for some PvE

Tech prospecting, send mechs out for X hours (user selectable) depending on how long you are out, and how big a force you send, you have a scaling % chance to discover some old prints or damaged gear in some ruins, this gives you Y number of minutes toward researching a random tech. Multiple runs of this would add up over time(add in a simple barrier so that no more than 75% of the required time could be accumulated this way.) You can add a second check so that you only get tech you have not researched yet.

Resource Hunter, similar to patrol but instead of XP the objective is resources. You can choose how long you want to forage, and what type of resources you want(or choose all), and depending on how long you are out you have a % chance to get some resources(up to the army's load capacity).

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PvP idea, arena combat. You send units to an arena and directly challenge a player (with a similar cell sized army) or choose to sit there and accept challenges. Once you win/loose your army returns, no real damage occurs(ie all damage in fights is repaired for free). This nets you 1/3 the XP of normal city attacks. Optionally you could sign up for live fire arena, where all damage/losses are real but survivors get normal XP

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More Radical PvE, "dungeon crawls" you gain direct control over a mech (or perhaps 1-4 mechs) in a top down map and  have to navigate the "dungeon" to complete "quest" objectives. Rewards would be XP(probably 1/3 or 1/4 normal combat xp) and perhaps mech equipment(maybe even research similar to above suggestion) but not artifacts, perhaps even a fully loaded mech is recovered.
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Kalc Foo

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Re: Mech pilots
« Reply #16 on: December 13, 2011, 02:58:10 AM »

I like your City Administrator ideas.  The Administrator should be able to die in a-b weapon attacks.
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I'm talking about mech fu fighting.

Neo

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Re: Mech pilots
« Reply #17 on: December 13, 2011, 03:01:15 AM »

I like your City Administrator ideas.  The Administrator should be able to die in a-b weapon attacks.

Yeah, let's kill everyone. Why so bloody, Kalc? Chill

Sturm

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Re: Mech pilots
« Reply #18 on: December 13, 2011, 03:41:40 AM »

I like your City Administrator ideas.  The Administrator should be able to die in a-b weapon attacks.

Unless that City Administrator happens to be.....CHUCK NORRIS!!!!!
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adamsky

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Re: Mech pilots
« Reply #19 on: December 13, 2011, 11:35:48 AM »

I like your City Administrator ideas.  The Administrator should be able to die in a-b weapon attacks.
Only when you destroy the city to the bare ground.
You can have only one Chuck Norris and he will administrate your last city.  ;D

PvP idea, arena combat. You send units to an arena and directly challenge a player (with a similar cell sized army) or choose to sit there and accept challenges. Once you win/loose your army returns, no real damage occurs(ie all damage in fights is repaired for free). This nets you 1/3 the XP of normal city attacks. Optionally you could sign up for live fire arena, where all damage/losses are real but survivors get normal XP
Not planned. We have fights without casualties during tournaments.

Hopefully the fact that you don't loose experience when you loose your army (Mech pilots, escape pods, etc.) will make people more eager to risk PvP combat. At the moment you can create army of 20 ST at level 15+ on NPC. Loosing such army (more than possible in PvP) is a major pain.
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Tyrranus

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Re: Mech pilots
« Reply #20 on: December 13, 2011, 09:51:34 PM »

thats cool with me adam, I figured Id just toss out all the ideas I had at the time since you were lookin for a few
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Ganymede

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Re: Mech pilots
« Reply #21 on: December 16, 2011, 08:56:25 PM »

(sorry t's been a while, it's been a crazy week)

quests i think would provide a richer experience if they were specifically geared toward pilots serving different jobs, and those quests would reward those jobs (higher rank in a particular skill). examples like tyrranus' are good. other examples would be rescue operations, hired fortification, specific patrols (keep an eye out for __, and expect to fight it), escort service (no, not THAT kind of escort), assassinations, cargo transport, scouting missions, etc. I think whatever the descriptions, quests would fall under 6 basic categories:
a) offensive combat, b) defensive combat, c) goods collection, d) goods retention, e) info gathering, and f) plain ol' time wasting. so my thought is that each basic category will have different goals and requirements:
(a) requires you to deal at least a certain amount of damage in a skirmish. you can count damage as total hull damage or equipment damage.
(b) requires you to survive with a certain amount of hull points and/or equipment intact. it could also mean that you have other mech(s) with you that you must keep alive.
(c) is just that -- acquire a minimum amount of resources/equipment.
(d) is like (b), except you need to retain a minimum amount of equipment/resources you have loaded into transport platforms.
(e) is a bit fuzzy, but also can have the potential for the most interesting quests. for example, you know when you go to an NPC camp just to see what's there, and sometimes you don't get close enough or stick around for long enough so that when the battle report comes back all you see are "?" for the mechs? perhaps a quest can be that you need to successfully identify mechs at some location. other info gathering missions can be like simulating satellite scans: sneak into a rebel base and determine how many resources they have or what kind of buildings they've built.
(f) is like something you've already mentioned: standard patrol duty that just gives you exp the longer you're out. given the other options and the fact that this kind of mission is really doing you a favor by not having vulnerable mechs at home, i'd say the exp gain should be pretty small.

the "how" of accomplishing these is based off of the equipment build of your mech and the bonuses the pilot can provide. combat quests are straightforward in this, but in a quest where you have to retain goods, you need to make sure you have enough transport platforms, but perhaps you may want more in case some get damaged? perhaps you want to add armaments instead to kill whatever is after you before you can take enough damage to destroy a platform? more pilot-centric quest executions are inherent in (e): the better int and dex you have, the better your chances to spy out the rebel base. perhaps having the sniper talent can suppress possible notice and give you an advantage for viewing at greater distances, reducing your chance of being caught. also, for any quest, time is definitely a factor. for example, if you're going on a resource gathering mission, you're looking for a rare vein of crystal so the longer you specify to go out on the mission the better your chances of harvesting more of it.


city administrators is a great idea! now we're starting to think like the mechanics in Master of Orion 2. Are you familiar? well, if not, trust me it's fantastic. they have features similar to what we're talking about here: you have just general "leaders," and some leaders have strength in combat, but some have strength in building infrastructure (reduction in production time), some have strength in harvesting resources, etc. So in much the same description i've given for pilots already, you can give these to administrators: they have the same attributes to allocate at level ups, but their skills/jobs are different (harvesting, logistics, city development, etc.) and their talents are likewise different. and using them to get rid of the arbitrary 800 point rule is also fantastic. it's more realistic to say you need an administrator than you need a certain size city. the acquirement of a new administrator can be considered the current administrator being able to "mentor" a new admin. so in my framework, mentoring can be a job you can get that has pretty high attribute requirements; i.e., the level of the administrator now dictates the availability of getting a new city. that just leaves the question of how administrators can gain exp....

well, elapsed time could be a part of it, or perhaps you need certain levels of their skills/jobs which can be increased by focusing in the respective job: for example, an admin can gain skill/job ranks as being a harvester by the total amount of resources you can generate and/or acquire through harvesters/farming.

the most important thing here is to have a unified system that can apply to everybody, as it benefits both parties. it benefits you as programmers so that you don't have to write in little exceptions to differences in rules between pilots and administrators, and it benefits the players by allowing them to build their strategies around a unified set of mechanics, essentially letting them plan out their administrators and pilots together to best serve a specific purpose for their city.
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Sturm

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Re: Quests
« Reply #22 on: December 21, 2011, 09:19:55 AM »

I'd like to see something similar to the tournament added as a repeatable quest. Player allowed to dispatch limited # of units based upon cell/cost. New patrol where your units encounter hostile units, and gives some form of reward. I think this could be also interesting for mech pilots if the pilot became available to recruit only after defeating a difficult patrol quest.

example:

level 1 patrol quest-easy: 1xNPC Unit 1xWeapon - reward= tiny amount of resources

level 1 patrol quest-medium: 1xNPC Unit Max#Weapon - reward= small amount of reso, cheap equipment

level 1 patrol quest-hard: 1xNPC Unit Fully Upgraded Max # weapons and armor - reward= larger amount of resource, some of the npc's items, and "Pilot A" now available for recruitment.

And as you defeat all 3 difficulties of each level, the next level becomes available for tasking. Maybe a neat way to gain pilots, a higher level item, and after you get a pilot, you could gain xp from them as well. Higher level quests make better pilots available (maybe they gain xp faster than lower lvl pilots or something).

Just an idea
« Last Edit: December 21, 2011, 12:38:33 PM by Sturm »
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the-spartan

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Re: Quests
« Reply #23 on: December 21, 2011, 02:53:42 PM »

+1 Sturm
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adamsky

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Re: Mech pilots
« Reply #24 on: December 21, 2011, 04:51:57 PM »

Thanks to everyone for the input. Looks like there will be no problem with ideas for quests.

Ganymede: unfortunately I skipped Master of Orion II. As far as I remember I was still addicted to Settlers those days...



Ok. Currently my main problem is how to limit number of pilots. I still think we should limit it somehow to make it more RPGish.

Simple idea is to give new pilot with each new city. At first player would recieve 3 pilots, each new city would add 1 or 2 new pilots. I like simple ideas that work, but I think we need something more sophisticated.

Another simple idea is to make it limited with time. You get first 3 pilots when you start to play, another one after 3 days, another one after a week, after a month, etc... I think it's also a bit to simple. Besides it doesn't encourage players to be active.

More complex idea is to add some secret "pilot points" for various actions. Whenever you build a new building, research something, explore an NPC, send Mechs to patrol, attack other player, engine gives you some "pilot points". Player would not see those points and we would also not reveal how much points we give for certain actions. When you have enough points on your account, you can hire a new pilot. Biggest advantage is that we could use the same system for city administrators one day. We'd have to put some work to find proper balance between hi and low activity players, but I think we could do it during one server.

Any opinions or some other ideas?
« Last Edit: December 21, 2011, 04:59:41 PM by adamsky »
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Sturm

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Re: Mech pilots
« Reply #25 on: December 21, 2011, 06:32:44 PM »

As a continuation/change to my post above...

Replace the Recovery Station with something like Cantina.

Make it a unique building so that you can only produce one of them. (not one in each city, one...period)

Limit Building level to level 10 and cap # pilots by 1 per building level + however many pilots players are granted per city (say 1 free pilot per city?)

Unlock a chain quest for each building level where players must complete several patrols of increasing difficulty to unlock a final Boss Pilot encounter.

Scale the chain quest levels along the same lines as current npcs. Higher level Cantina will allow harder patrol quests to be undertaken.

I picture it something like manually unlocking each level of the current npc spawn (which is itself a good idea imo)

The extent to which you can upgrade each pilot gets limited by the level of Cantina.

Give quests that grant experience points to specific attributes for using different kinds of mechs. (Using Pumas successfully grants points in speed for instance, or successful use of Wolverines grants points to hull strength).

Since pilots cannot be killed, make these quests risky by treating them just like a regular npc fight where their units can be destroyed, or just damage the players mechs badly enough that they'll require alot of repair time after each attempt, or reset the quest chain after failure.

And of course without the limit to cell/cost of units player sends, it would be much less fun. Sending a few novas to crush the Athlas Pilot Boss would be lame as hell.
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Ganymede

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Re: Mech pilots
« Reply #26 on: December 21, 2011, 07:19:09 PM »

@adamsky: +1 on secret pilot points
@sturm: +1 on quest chains. even if the reward isn't a new pilot at the end of it, quest chains are great for distinguishing pilots as specialists, and definitely give them a role playing character feel. somewhere down the line pilots could have titles/awards that state what they've accomplished in quests.

pilots should be limited but i don't think they should be extremely difficult to get. my vision would for there to be 2 or 3 pilots to start in the main city (after all, you end up w/ 2 raptors if you go through the tutorial). Subsequent cities can start with 1. Definitely do the secret pilot points (btw, if that doesn't start up an active wiki nothing will), but not just that. Players need some deterministic way they can work towards. Seeing as how there'd be 2 ways to get new pilots, neither way should be easy.

perhaps the quest chain thing would work. at first i thought building levels are straightforward way to do it, but it doesn't sound very realistic. another way could be to develop a city administrator enough or to have him/her acquire the right combo of skills or talents to attract new pilots to the city. this idea of notoriety is probably best suited to the secret pilot points system though. deterministically, quests may be your best bet. perhaps instead of quest chains you could have singular recruitment quests. but that these singular quests have requirements on the pilot (certain level of attributes or skills, certain talents, etc.).
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Sturm

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Re: Mech pilots
« Reply #27 on: December 21, 2011, 07:35:50 PM »

I thought of the story behind the quest chain being something like you work your way through a few enemy patrols and attract the attention of their boss who happens to be the pilot you're looking to recruit and he challenges you to a duel or something.
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Tyrranus

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Re: Mech pilots
« Reply #28 on: December 21, 2011, 09:54:59 PM »

might be an unpopular suggestion but perhaps, since we're talkin bout fragile humans, there is a small % chance that when the pilot ejects(mech destroyed) he dies?

This could be reduced/negated with a replacement structure, swap the recovery center for a hospital.
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Ganymede

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Re: Mech pilots
« Reply #29 on: December 21, 2011, 10:05:39 PM »

if real estate is an issue then i'd rather the recovery station get replaced by something that can provide a better RPG experience, whatever that may be. could be anything on that angle... training center, tavern, recruitment office, department of integration...
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