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Author Topic: Max mech limits?  (Read 197 times)

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Storm

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Max mech limits?
« on: February 15, 2019, 09:11:24 PM »

Robert,

I like your suggestion about disarming and shutting down mechs.  In the past I could never go above about 150 nova as it took too much time and effort.  Others would have like 400 and would say it was easy to manage.  Now I know that they were using a game hack. 

I do love the game but as I have stated in the past you keep losing users.  This game is not newbie friendly and new players (even returning players) are bashed out of the game.  Sorry if you don't understand what that means.  I have explained it before.

One fix that would make the game better.  Mech max based on number of cities.  20 mechs for first city then 10 mechs max for each additional city.  This would create more stable environment, make the game a cooperative strategy game (which is what I think was the original intent).  If you implemented this, then it would be no problem to implement your remove equipment and power down mechs when out of cells.  This one change would be a great benefit to the game.

If you are unsure about changing cell starvation, one easy fix is this.  When you hit 0 cells, go into starvation mode.  You cannot come back out of starvation mode until you have a positive cell amount equal to a percentage of your total negative cells.  If you are -100K cells/hour, and you set this percentage to 25%, then the city would need to have over 25K cells at one time to come out of starvation mode.  This would be an easy quick coding fix but like I said above, I like your idea of powering down mechs until the starvation mode fixed.

Thanks

Taipan
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Master

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Re: Max mech limits?
« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2019, 08:19:46 AM »

Just wanted to add small note
Don't bring other players into this, I was the only one using it until now
And yes it is easy to have 400 nova even without this technique, you just need to know how to use them efficiently and know when and what invest into
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Robert-MH

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Re: Max mech limits?
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2019, 09:59:44 AM »

Taipan,
Limit of mechs based on number of cities make sense and I can imagine many, many advantages of that approach. But this would be a really big rules changer. Big question is what would happen if city is raised? Decrease size, but what about exceeding mechs?

Regarding game complexity and being hard for newbies. Fully agree. Many things can be simplified keeping the game spirit. But this much broader and complex topic. This also is why we decided to focus on building 3d version of the game having apps for playing. Will share more details soon on our youtube channel.
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Ares

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Re: Max mech limits?
« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2019, 11:47:22 AM »

I think a minimum limit need to be 15-20mechs/city.Some old player can stop the game if the limits are very hard.... I think mech limit can kill the game, if the limit is very low.... Only for example, I had more than 100 mechs with 6 city.So yes, limiting the mechs can be good idea, but I think in a strategy game not the producing is the most imporant and it will make the game something like that, if you can't have enough mech for offense
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TheDude

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Re: Max mech limits?
« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2019, 04:28:22 AM »

20 mechs per city limit is not enough to hit all 16K NPC. You need around 40 Nova alone just to constantly run on all versions of loadouts on 16K NPC (hitting all lower NPC as well), with repair raised to max on every Nova. You don't need all 40 Nova to hit 16K NPC consistently, but anywhere up to 30 percent will be in repair mode all the time, even with repair maxed (possibly more). That does not even account for jumper fodder mechs, or a raptor defense line. So I would say 50 mechs per city, to a certain theoretical max (discussed later in post)

Now maybe you mean 20 mechs per city, so if I have 20 cities I can have 400 mechs? That is not right either. It is also not right why I can have more mechs with more cities, while some that do not play as hard cannot at least build enough mechs to defend against me with my 400 mech simply because they do not have enough cities to allow them to make enough mechs. You make a paradise for hammer players by making a mechs per city limit.

There is effectively a 450 mech limit. Meaning, you cannot send more than 450 mechs to one location at a time (move, or attack does not matter). What happens if you try is the system bounces you out to the login page. You can have more than 450 mechs stationed (I had 500 plus nova and maybe 50 of spiders and pumas at one time with some raptors, but I could not use them all at once).

I would suggest a 240 mech limit, with no basis on number of cities. This allows for exactly 16 rows in a battle. With 16 rows, I can see a use for each and every row, based on current armaments and chassis, to bring about success in battle. I would suggest 180 mech limit, but that only leaves 12 rows of 15, and can be at times not enough to cover all bases.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2019, 04:33:32 AM by TheDude »
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Storm

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Re: Max mech limits?
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2019, 07:54:20 PM »

TheDude, what I suggested was not 20 mechs per city.  20 for first city only, so with your 20 cities you would have a max of 200+10 for 210 mechs max.  Getting to 20 cities is not an easy feat. 

If you lose a city, then you are above cap until a mech dies.  You just cannot create more if you are at/above your mech limit based on cities.  I did post a list of suggestion on another thread.  The ideas will probably be bashed and ignored, but something needs to happen.  Getting/Keeping new players is very important.

Because of AB weapons this is a bashing game right now.  There really is no way to defend against that unless changes happen.  I honestly think limiting mechs will lower game hacking (using tricks to circumvent the system or flavor of the game). 

Also, what do you think about the idea of each player being able to 'Move' their starting city to a non-occupied grid for 30 credits?  This would be a once per game per starting city per player only.  This could generate more credits for the devs, I'm sure it would be used, and could add a type of new strategy to the game.

Taipan
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TheDude

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Re: Max mech limits?
« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2019, 04:59:43 PM »

If there were to be a mech limit based on the number of cities, it should be more along the lines of 50 mechs for first city, and 5 more allowed for each additional city. But you already know I am against mech limits vs city.

If the idea here is to reduce max amounts of mech a player can have there is a better way. You can put a cell modifier on every additional mech. As you make more mechs, it changes the base requirement for every single mech in your army. The owners can fudge this modifier to get a theoritical max nunber of mech you could have.

For example, you make one nova, base cost per hour is 1600 cells. Make 2 nova (anywhere, in any city) and now it costs 1700 cells per nova per hour. Make 3 nova, and now it costs 1800 cells per nova per hour. On the 50th nova, it would cost 6500 cells per nova per hour, or 325,000 cells per hour for a 50 nova army. AS it is now, it would only cost 80,000 cells for 50 nova per hour.

This is a much better way IMO. For those who argue, 'what about having different chassis, how does this affect increased cell consumption. I suppose you could increase by chassis class, but you could also increase by set amount based on chassis, no matter what chassis you build (have a nova, and build a raptor, then the nova just increased 100 cells, does not matter what chassis you build). Of course, building a raptor would not increase raptor cell usage by 100, maybe only 10 cell per hour. So something lie this...

For each additional mech, cell consuumption be chassis increases as follows:
raptor +10
puma +25
athlas +40
spider +60
nemesis +75
nova +100

You take the number of total mechs you have and every type of mech bases cell usage is modified as above. As example, you have 10 mechs, 3 raptors, 3 spiiders, a nemesis and 3 nova. Every raptor will use +100 cells, every spider will use +600 cells, every nemesis will use +750 cells, every nova will use +1000 cells.

This kind of base cell modifier will require alot of thinking. What I suggest here is an example only, and I already see lower end mechs will have to be reduced.

Hope this makes sense to everyone.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2019, 05:03:15 PM by TheDude »
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Robert-MH

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Re: Max mech limits?
« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2019, 09:48:35 PM »

More I am thinking about that more I am against additional mech limits, having in place mechanism designed for that - cells consumption. What is needed is to seal this mechanism to prevent using any tricks and hacks.

My main concern is - why additionally limit max number of units for players having will and time to play more, which allow them to maintain bigger armies.
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