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Author Topic: Honor Points  (Read 7692 times)

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  • SpiderTank
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Re: Honor Points
« Reply #15 on: July 24, 2014, 02:06:17 PM »

Ok few words about this...

The idea maybe isn't bad, but the implementation makes no sense, current version of it  is simply ridiculous (at least on s3 - I still hope it there by/as error, and so can't be taken seriously).

Well... to make this as constructive as possible I will offer my vision about how it could be...

Gaining Honor

It should indicate 'fair' play, more or less even fight, spectacular, exciting battles...

Honor should be awarded if and only if:
1) the fight is won
2) there was a fight - at least one mech get destroyed (towers not count)
3) the winner side in current fight is less or about equal by cell consumption (the zero border could go up to about double in cells, with exponential effect on gained honor)

- the attacker army cell consumption may be compared to total cell consumption of defender (or defending compound army - whatever is bigger), in this case there should be much more strict zero-honor border for attacker, possibly between 80% ~ 120% of defender cells
- the total cell consumption of players is compared instead of armies in current fight - this is less exciting, but less abusable... but the goal - as I see it, is to give players at least a vague reason to not just send 50 novas to kill 3 Athlasses, even if they have, so the possible abuse here is not strictly abuse. Maybe the totals may play a role in the formula, influencing the result, but base for calculation still comes from the result of current fight.
- the number of attacks within time period influence honor gain, this could even be soft - and much more meaningful - version of attack number restriction (I hate it, in my opinion that restriction is useless at best and toxic at worst, but I not want to go here on long off-topic textwall about why)

questions and problems:
- should defender ever have chance to get honor? - I would rather see that, if a good defense stay against bigger force, maybe less than successful attack or with harder terms, but available in principle.
- the Total Cell Consumption is obscure parameter, using it as base for honor point calculation makes it hard to impossible to predict the result by players - yes, but it is the only fair parameter for comparing player force we can have; and, a clever player can compute or guess other player cell consumption with acceptable accuracy. Further, I don't see anything bad in honor to come (or not) a bit by surprise ;)
- the Total Cell Consumption is highly volatile, you can gain honor in one attack and lose in next against the same player in short time - this is a serious problem, if we choose to see it as problem... one of possible solutions could be to create artificial 'lag' of this value by using average within a time period (a week?)

...what we have is,
you gain honor for attacking a bigger payer by infrastructure points, the honor seems to be awarded for the mere fact of attack and proportional to difference in infrastructure - you can farm for honor easily by mindlessly raptor spamming a big guy, no wonder almost only honor-positive players are deleting abandons that send out raptor auto-attacks...

Losing Honor

This should indicate toxic behavior, game breaking moves, bulling... perhaps, needless killing (of 'civilians' so to say :P)...

Honestly, this is very hard to define... kicking a player out of the game is not something easily measurable without retrospective analysis (as it involves a will and desire to continue by that player), but this, or possibly any moves indicative for that, should be the rare cases honor is lost.

Farming inactive (and with 'inactive' I mean red-dot inactive not auto-deleting inactive) without destroying any mechs should not lead to lost honor.
(Well, as to me, I rarely, if ever use 'farms', it is completely possible to play that way successfully, but I still see farming as rather a core game mechanic that should be tolerated up to a certain point)
Rendering active player into a farm may lead to loss of honor, if certain conditions are met.
Killing the last mech of a player may lead to loss of honor, if certain conditions are met.
Perma-cell locking the only city of a player should lead to lost honor.

Developing on the system proposed in "gaining honor" section, a battle that isn't a battle but ruthless execution, using 10x or more force than a total cell consumption of a defender (perhaps, by historical max or time-average), may be one of possibilities of honor loss... if the target is not in alliance currently at war.
Use of AB weapons could be associated with limited honor loss, even per se, and that could even be case where infrastructure points may play some role, but rather as historical max, not current value.

...or is it intended just as soft extension to infrastructure point restrictions?
Currently what we have is, if you attack a player that is smaller in infrastructure you lose honor, again, it seems just plain by fact of attack.
This is WRONG.
First, infrastructure points say almost nothing about player strength, as example in one given time 11k player had 19 novas, 6.5k player had 28 novas, and 3.5 player (yes, 3 cities!) had over 20 novas too. Well, eventually perhaps the 11k player will kill the other two, but as of now they about equal, and should be seen as such.

Btw, the 11k player attacked the 6.5k player in nice 68k/28M vs 80k/38M fight and lost it all, buy killing only few of his... I'm not sure lost he any honor for this fight in particular (definitely not gain any), as he is at over -130 honor this week only, but I perma-cell lock the single city of a debris thieve (effectively kicking that person out of the game) and got -3 honor... perhaps I should send 3 raptors to the only other player accidentally larger than me, to make it even, huh   :-\
« Last Edit: July 24, 2014, 02:09:56 PM by Enneagon »


  • SpiderTank
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  • Posts: 347
Re: Honor Points
« Reply #16 on: July 24, 2014, 02:27:32 PM »

After all, this a war game and war is not a very honorable affair....

But, assuming the honor system is more or less working and accepted, it can fuel itself also, that is, one should gain honor for attacking someone with negative honor, or even high honor, if the latter is a designated enemy, regardless of other measurements.
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